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 Post Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:58 am 
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17 pts, 12 rebs, 2 blk, 1stl, 56 FG%, 8x nba all star, 8x All NBA

if i said thats David Robinson you'd call me an idiot for even asking.

if i said thats Dwight Howard, you'd again call me an idiot for even asking. :lol:

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 Post Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:02 am 
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if i posted Howards and Grant Hills resumes side by side, with neither name attached, 95% of people will say Howards resume is better and its not close.

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 Post Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:11 am 
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I would need to know more. Id need to know the name. Those stats arent a lock.

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 Post Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:24 am 
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its Dwight Howard. :lol:

based strictly on stats and awards/achievments and how they compare to those already in, i say he is a lock. like i said, he's significantly better than Hill and Hill is in. But maybe intangibles wise and "other stuff," maybe he isnt.

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 Post Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:38 am 
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its Dwight Howard. :lol:

based strictly on stats and awards/achievments and how they compare to those already in, i say he is a lock. like i said, he's significantly better than Hill and Hill is in. But maybe intangibles wise and "other stuff," maybe he isnt.


But we all agree that Hill being in is a joke.


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 Post Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:43 am 
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its Dwight Howard. :lol:

based strictly on stats and awards/achievments and how they compare to those already in, i say he is a lock. like i said, he's significantly better than Hill and Hill is in. But maybe intangibles wise and "other stuff," maybe he isnt.


But we all agree that Hill being in is a joke.


definitely. so we should at least agree that Howard is in if we use an actual HOFer in Hill as the measuring stick. Now forgetting about Hill and just looking at Dwight, you dont think he's a HOFer with that resume??

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 Post Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:54 am 
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Man, I have a hard time calling Dwight a HOF'er.


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 Post Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:00 am 
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Man, I have a hard time calling Dwight a HOF'er.


thats my whole point. its because its Dwight. i know dudes would blindly look at the resume at at least consider him. soon as you attach the name, nope, no way, no how, hell no. :lol:

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 Post Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:01 am 
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Man, I have a hard time calling Dwight a HOF'er.


thats my whole point. its because its Dwight. i know dudes would blindly look at the resume at at least consider him. soon as you attach the name, nope, no way, no how, hell no. :lol:



Part of that is bias, of course. But to me, there has to be more than just stats on a paper. They gotta pass the eyeball test, and he don't pass it with me. but those stats are hard to deny.


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 Post Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:03 am 
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yea i feel you. its the intangibles and eye test and other stuff. outside of that 3 or so year run in Orlando where he was dominant and great and lost in the Finals one year, you really dont care or remember anything about him.

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 Post Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:14 am 
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Aye. He is as unmemorable of an 8x all star as I can think of.


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 Post Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:15 am 
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Those stats arent sure hof stats to me. They require further qualification tied to the guy. Bias aside on dwight. He never improved as a player since he got in the league. Has no post moves. Left every team on bad terms. Never commanded a double team. Never drove to improve his weaknesses. But demanded that he be treated like an elite player and elite level scorer....even when it was patently obvious that treating him as such was detrimental to the teams overall effectiveness.

Now that qualification nullifies the hell out of those stats, doesnt it?

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 Post Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:22 am 
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Those stats arent sure hof stats to me. They require further qualification tied to the guy. Bias aside on dwight. He never improved as a player since he got in the league. Has no post moves. Left every team on bad terms. Never commanded a double team. Never drove to improve his weaknesses. But demanded that he be treated like an elite player and elite level scorer....even when it was patently obvious that treating him as such was detrimental to the teams overall effectiveness.

Now that qualification nullifies the hell out of those stats, doesnt it?



Its why stats alone can't be used in HOF discussions. They have to be part of the discussion sure, but not the only consideration.


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 Post Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:08 pm 
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Now that qualification nullifies the hell out of those stats, doesnt it?


it doesn't nullify the hell out of it, but perhaps just enough to keep him out.

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 Post Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:16 pm 
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Those stats arent sure hof stats to me. They require further qualification tied to the guy. Bias aside on dwight. He never improved as a player since he got in the league. Has no post moves. Left every team on bad terms. Never commanded a double team. Never drove to improve his weaknesses. But demanded that he be treated like an elite player and elite level scorer....even when it was patently obvious that treating him as such was detrimental to the teams overall effectiveness.

Now that qualification nullifies the hell out of those stats, doesnt it?



Its why stats alone can't be used in HOF discussions. They have to be part of the discussion sure, but not the only consideration.


they have to be the biggest consideration, otherwise people get stupid and keep guys like Terrell Owens off the first ballot. Stats are the one measurable that guarantees everyone is judged the same. And they also tell a concrete story of what the player actually produced on the field/court, which is really what its all about. Fact is, what pushed Grant Hill over the top is that he's a swell guy. Intangibles were over valued in his case.

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 Post Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:00 pm 
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For sure they gotta the biggest. T.O was the best case of the stats being enough to speak as the primary. Hill was a case of the stats not saying enough, and then as you said they nodded him on some subjective qualitative shit. Hill and Howard have no business in there.

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 Post Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:13 pm 
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For sure they gotta the biggest. T.O was the best case of the stats being enough to speak as the primary. Hill was a case of the stats not saying enough, and then as you said they nodded him on some subjective qualitative shit. Hill and Howard have no business in there.


:thumbup:


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 Post Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:08 pm 
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THe difference is Hill was a superstar. Its called the hall of fame remember, not the hall of the best, or hall of the elite. Its why Gatti is in the hall and why maybe a guy like Hatton might get in one day, as awful as that sounds. And there are more factors.

Hill was super popular, had the hottest shoe that's still popular today, played for team USA, led the league in all star voting. He was supposed to be the second coming. Hill was on top then succumbed to injury. He was done once he got injured. But still played like 12 more years. Won sportsman awards several times. I dont mind him getting in as much. Especially since it seemed injuries played a part in his downfall. But fuck Dwight.


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 Post Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:17 pm 
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THe difference is Hill was a superstar. Its called the hall of fame remember, not the hall of the best, or hall of the elite. Its why Gatti is in the hall and why maybe a guy like Hatton might get in one day, as awful as that sounds. And there are more factors.

Hill was super popular, had the hottest shoe that's still popular today, played for team USA, led the league in all star voting. He was supposed to be the second coming. Hill was on top then succumbed to injury. He was done once he got injured. But still played like 12 more years. Won sportsman awards several times. I dont mind him getting in as much. Especially since it seemed injuries played a part in his downfall. But fuck Dwight.



The HOF, in any sport, is supposed to be reserved for the best of the best. No the very good who were also really popular.


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 Post Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:31 pm 
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Fame is fame buddy. If they sell and help the sport, and also good enough, they will make it. Not saying I like it or stand by it but it is what it is.


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 Post Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:19 pm 
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ah the great debate of it being the Hall of Famous and Popular, the Gatti theory and all that. doesnt apply to all sports though, Don Mattingly isnt in the HOF.

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